I have trouble distinguishing "Metalcore" from Metal Or Hardcore...[views:4998][posts:83]________________________________________________ [Aug 1,2004 3:18am - the_taste_of_cigarettes ""] i think my intention would be more evident if we stuck to defining what makes metal metal and what makes hardcore hardcore and how we get metalcore from mixing those, or if it is its own thing. rather than saying "metal is awesome, fuck hardcore". cause that's not helping me understand it any better :\ |
| ________________________________________ [Aug 1,2004 1:58pm - attendmyrequiem ""] metalcore is defined usually by bands who use metal riffs and hardcore riffs in their song and are still hardcore kids. Shattered Realm, Integrity, old 25 ta Life, and 100 Demons are good examples. Metalcore IS NOT hardcore kids playing metal as many would say. There is nothing core about bands like Black Dahlia Murder, the new Unearth, or Shadows Fall. Breakdowns DO NOT mean core either since 90% of the breakdowns in today's music is derived from Fear Factory, a metal band. hardcore is sped up more raw version of punk. In My Eyes, Ten Yard Fight, and Embrace Today. Wow i just named all boston bands...but anyway. Metal is a bit harder to expalian because i have to explain each and every genre. |
| _________________________________________ [Aug 1,2004 2:12pm - TheGreatSpaldino ""] attendmyrequiem said:Breakdowns DO NOT mean core either since 90% of the breakdowns in today's music is derived from Fear Factory, a metal band. well, i dont know about that entirely... Suffocation had breakdown grooves back in the day, a lot of thrash metal bands had a lot of open stringed palm muted grooves... Fear Factory was doing the Meshuggah-esque open stringed stuff in 95 with Demanufacture. they werent really doing much of it at all in Soul of a New Machine and stuff... blah, i hate music. |
| ________________________________________ [Aug 1,2004 2:19pm - attendmyrequiem ""] TheGreatSpaldino said:attendmyrequiem said:Breakdowns DO NOT mean core either since 90% of the breakdowns in today's music is derived from Fear Factory, a metal band. well, i dont know about that entirely... Suffocation had breakdown grooves back in the day, a lot of thrash metal bands had a lot of open stringed palm muted grooves... Fear Factory was doing the Meshuggah-esque open stringed stuff in 95 with Demanufacture. they werent really doing much of it at all in Soul of a New Machine and stuff... blah, i hate music. I was trying to explain that breakdowns don't mean necessarily mean metalcore, but just worded it alittle sketchy. Like the breakdowns in Unearth and All that Remains are very Fear Factory-esque breakdowns and the rest of their riffing besides those breakdowns are very melodic metal. But i think you get the gist of what i'm saying. |
| _________________________________________ [Aug 1,2004 2:20pm - TheGreatSpaldino ""] yeah, its all good. B-) |
| __________________________________ [Aug 1,2004 2:29pm - Dissector ""] attendmyrequiem said: Breakdowns DO NOT mean core either since 90% of the breakdowns in today's music is derived from Fear Factory, a metal band. Fear Factory? We steal all of our breakdowns from Exodus and Anthrax. |
| ______________________________ [Aug 1,2004 2:34pm - eddie ""] Anthrax, best breakdowns ever |
| __________________________________ [Aug 1,2004 2:39pm - Dissector ""] actually I think SOD has the best breakdowns, but they can be considered a core band. |
| ________________________________________ [Aug 1,2004 2:43pm - attendmyrequiem ""] Dissector said:attendmyrequiem said: Breakdowns DO NOT mean core either since 90% of the breakdowns in today's music is derived from Fear Factory, a metal band. Fear Factory? We steal all of our breakdowns from Exodus and Anthrax. way to read my next fucking post. trying to make a witty remark when I already corrected myself makes you....IGNORANT. "I was trying to explain that breakdowns don't mean necessarily mean metalcore, but just worded it alittle sketchy. Like the breakdowns in Unearth and All that Remains are very Fear Factory-esque breakdowns and the rest of their riffing besides those breakdowns are very melodic metal. But i think you get the gist of what i'm saying." |
| __________________________________ [Aug 1,2004 2:47pm - Dissector ""] I wasn't making fun of you. I'm just stating the fact that I like Exodus breakdowns. Wayo to overanalyze my fucking post. |
| _________________________________________ [Aug 1,2004 2:52pm - TheGreatSpaldino ""] way to post on a message board! im telling! |
| ____________________________________ [Aug 1,2004 9:43pm - The_ExhumeD ""] I like what sounds good anything from james taylor to suffocation |
| __________________________________ [Aug 1,2004 9:54pm - dread_104 ""] i like james taylor breakdowns too!!! |
| _____________________________ [Aug 2,2004 1:01am - hey ""] few things: shadows fall is a metal band. all that remains is most definitely a metalcore band. they have it in thier ethic too. that fear factory comment is sorta ridiculous embrace today to alot of "hardcore" kids are very metal. most of those dudes in that band are way into metal and were before they got into hardcore (ive read this in interviews) while they def are a staple in the hardcore scene, they are very metallic. shit like madball to me is metallic hardcore. same with hatebreed. just like the divisions of hardcore (metallic hardcore, tough guy hardcore, posi hardcore, melodic hardcore, etc) metalcore has many categories. all that remains for example, while they take minute long chunks out of songs to add solos, they def have hardcore grooves, ethic, and vocals. then you have bands like converge, poison the well, and a life once lost. all bands that fall under the metalcore umbrella, but all who have distinct sounds. this is all just my opinion though. feel free to comment on it. one more thing maybe you guys can comment on. ive always been in the middle of the road for lamb of god. i mean, they are straight up metal in so many aspects, but they so have the core elements and ethics. randy is always talking about the cro mags and shit like that, bringing the "wall of death" to the masses (which i consider funny, cause all the ozzfest kids probably think they invented it) what would you guys consider them? |
| ___________________________________ [Aug 2,2004 1:20am - BornSoVile ""] i havn't read one reply cause i don't want my answer to be influence by others. i'd say metalcore is basically everytype of metal and hardcore blended together into a marketable somewhat virgin ear friendly acceptable form of emotively ailing music. metalcore typically make poetic nonsense out of such themes as love, heartbreak, betrayial, and acceptance. if you had to classify it by fashion i'd say it's all about white belts, sweater vests, and queer haircuts. oh and wicked cleche tattoos. |
| __________________________________________ [Aug 2,2004 10:50am - WhyamIandasshole ""] The only difference between metal and hardcore is booze and solos. |
| ________________________________________ [Aug 3,2004 2:21pm - attendmyrequiem ""] hey said:few things: shadows fall is a metal band. all that remains is most definitely a metalcore band. they have it in thier ethic too. that fear factory comment is sorta ridiculous embrace today to alot of "hardcore" kids are very metal. most of those dudes in that band are way into metal and were before they got into hardcore (ive read this in interviews) while they def are a staple in the hardcore scene, they are very metallic. shit like madball to me is metallic hardcore. same with hatebreed. just like the divisions of hardcore (metallic hardcore, tough guy hardcore, posi hardcore, melodic hardcore, etc) metalcore has many categories. all that remains for example, while they take minute long chunks out of songs to add solos, they def have hardcore grooves, ethic, and vocals. then you have bands like converge, poison the well, and a life once lost. all bands that fall under the metalcore umbrella, but all who have distinct sounds. this is all just my opinion though. feel free to comment on it. one more thing maybe you guys can comment on. ive always been in the middle of the road for lamb of god. i mean, they are straight up metal in so many aspects, but they so have the core elements and ethics. randy is always talking about the cro mags and shit like that, bringing the "wall of death" to the masses (which i consider funny, cause all the ozzfest kids probably think they invented it) what would you guys consider them? What do you think metalcore is short for? metallic hardcore. Now with that said it's exactly as I explained it. Somehow people started calling hardcore kids playing metal with fear factory breakdowns (bleeding through, misery signals, endthisday, etc) metalcore, but it really isnt. Good thing my fear factory comment is ridiculous! |
| _____________________________ [Aug 3,2004 2:41pm - hey ""] dude. im not trying to cut anyone down here for thier opinion. im just citing my own. why do i think its ridiculous? cause bleeding fucking through doesnt have "fear factory breakdowns" they have fucking breakdowns. Fear Factory didnt invent the wheel for breakdowns. and metallic hardcore isnt metalcore. metalcore in my opinion are things i have stated. all that remains, unearth, converge: metal bands influenced by hardcore. hatebreed, madball: hardcore bands influenced by metal |
| _____________________________________ [Aug 3,2004 2:59pm - the_reverend ""] YOU GUYS ARE ALL FUCKING WRONG!!!! WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG!!! I can't beleive you know nothing about your musical history. "metal-core" is from the late 70's/early 80's originally. bands, like the accused, who were closer to some of kevorkian's angels songs than to bleeding through. by 88, this form of metalcore was gone. fastforward 4 years, now bands like Cave in, converge, outcast, etc... come into play. they too some rock and melodic parts and mixed them with the hardcore that had been around then and BANG! 90's metalcore is formed. now it's 2004, 22-25 years of metalcore and it's such a broad genre... anything that houses lamb of god, ion dissonance, shadows fall, burst, between the buried and me, and all the others.. well shit.. that's a huge umbrella... though it's getting hard to genrify things... I mean Dead to Fall is um.. swedish-black-metal-core? ps: I consider the_network to be tech-core pps: spaldino's shades of gray on the SF is spot on pps: what about the last Haunted cd? that was pretty metalcore too |
| _____________________________________ [Aug 3,2004 3:01pm - the_reverend ""] hey: irate too... those bands are hard to place... totally harecore with metal parts! damn all these bands for playing what they want so we can't cookie cutter them |
| _____________________________________ [Aug 3,2004 3:02pm - the_reverend ""] oh and what about grindcore? 90's grindcore = napalm death 00's grindcore = the number 12 looks like you? |
| _________________________________ [Aug 3,2004 3:07pm - succubus ""] the reverend has spoken! |
| ________________________________________________ [Aug 3,2004 3:07pm - the_taste_of_cigarettes ""] I heard Acrid started the modern metal-core movement...at least as far as hardcore kids playing metal. |
| ______________________________________ [Aug 3,2004 3:11pm - Joe/NotCommon ""] if metalcore was just merely any band that blended metal and hardcore, then my favorite metalcore bands are Disengaged, Kevorkian's Angels, Abhorred, Hirudinea and Noosebomb. |
| ________________________________________ [Aug 3,2004 3:41pm - attendmyrequiem ""] the_reverend said:oh and what about grindcore? 90's grindcore = napalm death 00's grindcore = the number 12 looks like you? I hate that misconception! psuedo technical metalcore is more like it. |
| ________________________________________ [Aug 3,2004 3:41pm - attendmyrequiem ""] Joe/NotCommon said:if metalcore was just merely any band that blended metal and hardcore, then my favorite metalcore bands are Disengaged, Kevorkian's Angels, Abhorred, Hirudinea and Noosebomb. to me those bands sound more like punk with some metal influence. much like DRI. |
| ________________________________________ [Aug 3,2004 3:47pm - attendmyrequiem ""] hey said:dude. im not trying to cut anyone down here for thier opinion. im just citing my own. why do i think its ridiculous? cause bleeding fucking through doesnt have "fear factory breakdowns" they have fucking breakdowns. Fear Factory didnt invent the wheel for breakdowns. and metallic hardcore isnt metalcore. metalcore in my opinion are things i have stated. all that remains, unearth, converge: metal bands influenced by hardcore. hatebreed, madball: hardcore bands influenced by metal Funny as though members of bleeding through admit to being fear factory fans and that the breakdowns are much like riffs of fear factory. go fucking listen. obviously their breakdowns were influenced by them. Fear Factory didnt invent the wheel for breakdowns, but they were one of the first bands to pull of stop and go riffs along side bands like Meshuggah, Candiria, and even helmet. and what are breakdowns? Ahhh stuccato riffing. secondly if you were listening to metalcore when the genre was being created (i'm not old enough to have heard about the metalcore in the 80's) but when I started listen to hardcore around 96, yes i was merely 13, metalcore was just getting big and bands taht were being calling metalcore were metallic hardcore bands. I'm not trying to start up and arguement, but i feel you are talking from less knowledge of music. |
| __________________________________ [Aug 3,2004 4:01pm - Paul FOD ""] not all breakdowns are that style of riffing. Even bands that arent "metal" or hardcore" play breakdowns. And 90s grindcore?? not napalm death. ND was grind back in the late 80's. the number 12 looks like you isnt grindcore at all. If you want to litsen to "breakdowns" go pick up molesting the decapitated. Fuck hardcore and "metalcore" |
| ________________________________________ [Aug 3,2004 4:04pm - attendmyrequiem ""] Paul FOD said:not all breakdowns are that style of riffing. Even bands that arent "metal" or hardcore" play breakdowns. And 90s grindcore?? not napalm death. ND was grind back in the late 80's. the number 12 looks like you isnt grindcore at all. If you want to litsen to "breakdowns" go pick up molesting the decapitated. Fuck hardcore and "metalcore" true, paul, but the discussion is about metalcore, not everything, and as for metalcore 90% of it is fear factory breakdowns. anyway, am i seeing you tonight with mike? |
| _____________________________ [Aug 3,2004 4:20pm - hey ""] dude, you just turned an interesting discussion about music into a pissing contest of who is more old school. with that, im done. |
| ________________________________________ [Aug 3,2004 4:21pm - attendmyrequiem ""] moron |
| _____________________________________ [Aug 3,2004 4:38pm - swamplorddvm ""] OK lets just call it "new school (style) metal". |
| ___________________________________ [Aug 7,2004 11:58am - pessimist ""] attendmyrequiem said:Joe/NotCommon said:if metalcore was just merely any band that blended metal and hardcore, then my favorite metalcore bands are Disengaged, Kevorkian's Angels, Abhorred, Hirudinea and Noosebomb. to me those bands sound more like punk with some metal influence. much like DRI. I'm not sure that I'd call Abhorred or Hirudinea that at all. Kevorkians and Disengaged i could see (obviously), and Noosebomb in some songs maybe, but Abhorred and Hirudenia, while maintaining punk influences, could not be considered punk bands in any way... |
| ___________________________________________ [Aug 8,2004 7:55am - Bestial Onslaught ""] The problem with this whole topic is that a lot of people who are from the hardcore scene or listen to a lot of the bigger (Century Media/Metal Blade) type bands is that they have a much much less honed sense of what really falls into the category of metal or not. I'm certainly not against all bands that mix genres, and I don't care if it's called Metalcore, Crossover, whatever, though modern Metalcore has certainly come to represent some more specific styles. As for the breakdowns, it depends on what you consider "groove" or "breakdowns" to be exactly... Metal bands have always used slow and mid-paced sections to counterpoint the speedier stuff, but a lot of the grooves in modern hardcore and metalcore are based on rhythms more reminiscent of the street, and rap, which I think had a lot of impact on the hardcore scene's transition from the 80's to 90's... For example, that's why I have trouble considering a band like Skinless to be a Death Metal band, when there are beats that are certainly taken from 90's hardcore, so to me that'd fall more under the banner of Metalcore/Death Metalcore... Metal breakdowns have traditionally relied on either rhythmic, blues change ups (as started by SABBATH), or straight forward, 4/4 aggressive riffs (Thrash stuff like early-to-mid era KREATOR comes to mind) - Or some combination thereof (like many of the mid-paced MORBID ANGEL tracks)... Of course there's a lot of crossover in every direction, since newer Hardcore bands still take influence from old Thrash, since modern Death Metal is filled with influences passed down from Hardcore through Grind, since even Black Metal bands in the early 90's began to blast a lot (not taking directly from early Grind, but still being influenced by the general push towards faster and faster drumming in all extreme music). So it really depends on who you're talking to - someone who thinks SOILWORK and KILLSWITCH ENGAGE are the hottest things on the block might not be so accurate in their appraisals, but then again, over-defensive, jaded assholes like myself are sometimes perhaps too nitpicky about genre distinction - but I guess I feel entitled to be, since I have invested so much time and so much of myself into absorbing the history of metal. I'll listen to anything that sounds good, but mislabeling is a big pet peeve of mine, especially when it comes to the music I spend most of my time listening to... |